MY LIFE

“Freedom is measured by the distance between church and state”

13 Nov

“No True Christian”?

I have no absolute proof that it was Christians, but there’s plenty of reason to suspect that it was.

Again, I ask, what is wrong with Christians that they have so much anger, hatred, and bitterness that they would deface someone else’s ad like this?  Why are they so threatened by people who have a different perspective in this life?

Read more here.

The other day, Steve tried to invoke a version of the “No True Scotsman” argument, i.e., challenging the fact that atheists/non-theists are a clear minority by claiming

Yes, millions of church-goers, but most are non-believers thinking they’re believers and in church simply due to status, both political and social, which, again, Scripture says is wrong.

The problem with this argument is that Steve has set himself up to decide who is a “real” Christian and who is not.   Even without attempting to individually select “he is, he is… nope, he’s not”, he is still making an unprovable and unwarranted claim.

Back when I was a Christian,* I used to hear this often in the churches, usually based on passages like this from Matthew 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Or this one from Luke 6:

46  And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47  Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48  He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49  But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

And yet, EVERY SINGLE TIME such a passage was considered, it was part of a sermon where the preacher was NOT chastising his own members, OR railing against non-believers.   It was ALWAYS in the context of railing against OTHER CHRISTIANS, other churches and denominations who “don’t do things the way way do, so they aren’t following the will of God.”

Total bullshit!    It is IMPOSSIBLE for any Christian, or any group/denomination of Christians to say some other group or individual is not also a Christian.  Even when people are behaving like absolute turds, you cannot say “he’s not a Christian”.

If someone identifies as a Christian, he’s a Christian.   You HAVE TO take them at their word, because there are no tests for one person to examine another and make a determination.   Even such passages like “by their fruit ye shall know them” (fruit = their behavior and actions, how they treat OTHER PEOPLE), aren’t a good test.

So, when someone scribbles over an innocent atheist poster and declares “millions are in need of salvation”, it’s a pretty sure bet that a Christian did it.   I can’t imagine a non-Christian would be so exercised in his mind to deface a poster with such a hateful message.  Christians are the only ones I’ve ever known who believe in that level of hate toward others.   (And yes, it IS a message of hate:  “you need to get saved because God loves you so much that if you don’t believe in him for this flash of a finite lifetime,  he’ll torture you for all infinite eternity”.)   Even if the God of the Bible were real, why in the world would ANY one want to worship such a wicked, genocidal maniac?

* yes, I’ve had people tell me I wasn’t really a Christian because “real” Christians never walk away.  Bullshit.  Totally committed, fully believing Christians DO come to their senses and are restored to rational thinking.

4 Responses to ““No True Christian”?”

  1. 1
    Kinnexa Says:

    “Even such passages like “by their fruit ye shall know them” (fruit = their behavior and actions, how they treat OTHER PEOPLE), aren’t a good test.”

    Ain’t THAT the truth! For every decent, truly humane Christian I know (and yes, I do know a few), there are ten asshats who vandalize, insult, and sometimes kill in the name of Christ - which is supposed to make it all OK. What’s that smell? A heck of a lot of rotten fruit. Lord, protect me from your followers…

  2. 2
    Ray Says:

    yes. I know a lot of kind, wonderful, people too. and I know a bunch of Christians. And sometimes those two groups DO overlap. :-)

  3. 3
    Steve Says:

    “Steve has set himself up to decide who is a “real” Christian and who is not.” Ewwww, yeah, I guess that’s how it did sound. Sorry, guys. The rant I went on the other day stemmed from a lot of the usual crap/behaviour that I see “christians” do. However, I am TOTALLY guilty of the same stuff, and am very thankful there are folks like you who call people like me on the carpet and make me check myself. Was my comment overly judgmental? You bet. The reason for the comment is that I’m tired of the embarrassing stuff that goes on in the name of Christianity, that’s all. Kinnexa, totally correct. Again, thanks Ray and all others.

  4. 4
    Kinnexa Says:

    Thanks, Steve - that’s admirable. Honestly.

    Totally unrelated: in the photo of the defaced ad above, the words ‘kill for’ appear faintly to the left of the scrawled ’salvation’. Looks like more faint words written over in the line above, too. What’s up with this? Or is it all because I read “Subliminal Seduction” in the ’70s, and now I see S-E-X hidden in my ice cubes??

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