Atheist Morality
Interesting Op-Ed piece about Modern American Atheism:Quite good, actually, because it was prompted by a comment by a professor giving a lecture at Bryn Mawr:
I recently attenda lecture given by Deborah Stone on morality and public policy in which she emphasized the necessity for a community to maintain “faith” in order to be morally sound. Her philosophy was challenged by a Bryn Mawr student, Caroline Troein ‘09, who asked what the professor’s response was to the fact that many of the nations perceived as the most kind and charitable were also considered the least religious. Needless to say, Stone’s response was minimal. This conversation sparked my interest because it reminded me that even today, in a society that considers itself very much enlightened, we can still be very close-minded, especially when it comes to religion.
Many people still have the false and ignorant belief that without a faith in God a person has no moral compass, no moral guidelines for living. We know it’s false because the evidence is all around us in the lives of people without God. The author continues:
Morality comes from an understanding and respect for mankind and above that for living creatures in general. I know many atheists who are strong supporters of animal rights, human rights, and environmental preservation. It’s an innate preservation of species and respect for the earth that gives us our morality, rather than a book.
Indeed, many would consider Buddhists to be a very moral group, yet Buddhism itself has not theism. There is no God in Buddhism at all. They are, by their teaching, a-theist. Some do believe in a deity, but that’s not part of their main teachings.
He includes this little bit of info as well:
Consider the following: According to the Barna Research Group, there are 36 million atheists and agnostics in America—that’s one in 10. Yet according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, these people only make up .2 percent of the prison population, or one in 50. This would imply that atheists are, on average, less violent and criminally prone than Christians.
If it were true that believing in God makes you a moral being, and that having no theism makes you lacking in morals, why are atheists such a tiny percentage of the prison populations?
It’s a shame so many people still believe atheists have no morals, but I’ve never heard WHY they have this believe.
Hi, great blog post. Every few days I use Google to search the blogs for “atheist”, which brought me here. I’m glad I found your blog. You have a lot of great things to say.
I’m the author of a book called Christian No More, and this is a topic I tackle early on in the book. What baffles me is that in claiming that God is the one who creates the morals, these Christians are admitting that they themselves (a) have no morals and that (b) morals were arbitrarily created by their god for no reason whatsoever.
A friend of mine had a pretty good response to a teacher at a Christian school he attended many years ago. The teacher tried to explain that morals originate from God and that atheists therefore can’t have morals. My friend, who was obviously only a teenager at the time said something like, “Then if the only thing stopping you from picking up a gun and blowing everybody here away is your fear of God, then I certainly don’t want to be around you.”
It does make you wonder. Would these people really *like* to kill and rape but the only reason they don’t is God says not to?
Jeff
December 1st, 2008 at 1:07 pmThe Pharisees were really, really moral - to the point of sickening; yet they were, in fact, atheists (one example: Matt 15:1-9, Jesus quotes Isaiah 29:15).
December 1st, 2008 at 5:48 pmNoooo, Steve. No place in Matt 15:1-9 does Jesus quote Isaiah 29.15, which says “Woe to them which seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?” Perhaps some think Jesus was alluding to the Isaiah verse, but there’s no quote there.
Also, the Pharisees were a sect of the Jews. How do you figure they were atheist? They, as Jews, were very much actively theistic. To say the Pharisees were atheist is like a Baptist telling a Methodist “you’re not really Christian.” It’s nonsense. The Pharisees had a very strong theism — rigid and dogmatic and a pain in the ass (like fundies today), but nevertheless they operated under the banner of their own theism. They definitely had their beliefs and doctrines and teachings about God. Just because their theism didn’t fit with the other Jewish theisms of the day, or that Jesus gets pissed off at them for their version of theism, doesn’t equate to the charge that they had no theism.
A-theism = lacking a belief in/about God. The Pharisees were not without a belief in God.
December 1st, 2008 at 6:07 pmRay you have always known the Bible well.
Jesus was quoting Isaiah 29:13, not 29:15.
(Both NIV’s)
Matthew 15:8 - 9
8″ ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.”
Isaiah 29:13
13 The Lord says:
“These people come near to me with their mouth
and honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
Their worship of me
is made up only of rules taught by men.”
From http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/pharisee.htm:
(Thus they believed and loyal to God, but didn’t believe in Jesus. Very strict followers of the OT)
The name Pharisee in its Hebrew form means separatists, or the separated ones. They were also known as chasidim, which means loyal to God, or loved of God - extremely ironic in view of the fact that by His time, they made themselves the most bitter, and deadly, opponents of Jesus Christ and His message.
December 1st, 2008 at 7:44 pmThe reason that I equate the Pharisees with atheism is A-theism = lacking a belief in/about God. This applies because of Isaiah 29:13 “but their hearts are far from me.” Religion alone(rituals, traditions, etc.) cannot equal worship.
December 1st, 2008 at 8:05 pmRay & Shan - Wow! Thanks! 13 looked like 15. Thanks for clearing that up.
December 1st, 2008 at 8:09 pmShannon, Steve said Isaiah 29.15, not 29.13. In a debate it is not the job of a Respondent to search around and see if the Declarant intended something else. I went to the verse he cited and discovered it was not quoted as was claimed.
And, since he was using those passages to assert that the Pharisees were atheist, he really didn’t need to cite any verses because it isn’t there. As your own quote shows, they were loyal to God. Doesn’t matter if they believed in Jesus or not, but that they had their own theism, and were thus NOT atheist at all. Pagans, for example, have their own theism, but don’t believe in Jesus. They aren’t atheist at all. Same for Jains, Hindus, Zoroastrians, etc. They all have theistic religions, but it has nothing to do with God as the Bible defines God. Just because they don’t believe in the God of the Bible doesn’t mean they are atheist. Most of them are very firm in their theism, just like the Pharisees were.
December 1st, 2008 at 8:10 pmI think the term Athiest / Athiesm is used way too losely. People have their own God in many religions and they believe in their God just as I believe in mine. I completely agree with you on that point.
I looked up the verse to show what was quoted, however, I don’t believe it’s a valid support of athiesm.
I have a problem with church rules because I don’t believe I should follow “church rules” to worship my GOd and neither should others. Jesus even said “Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men”.
Again, I think many people who have a god / God are NOT athiests just because they don’t believe in my God. The God of the Bible is my God and yet, others have their God. Neither of which are Athiests.
Sorry Steve, you and I are both Christians, but I don’t want to call non-christians athiests because I don’t believe that.
December 1st, 2008 at 8:19 pmSteve said:
The reason that I equate the Pharisees with atheism is A-theism = lacking a belief in/about God. This applies because of Isaiah 29:13 “but their hearts are far from me.” Religion alone(rituals, traditions, etc.) cannot equal worship.
Again, I just don’t believe that Jesus was calling them athiests, however, he was stating that their hearts were not with JESUS. He did not say they were not following/worshiping/believing in God. They were stuck in the OT and followed strict rules. They truly BELIEVED in God and their rules, however, Jesus was telling them that they need to believe in God’s son, Jesus.
December 1st, 2008 at 8:24 pmhmmm… Steve didn’t say non-Christians are atheist. He only said the Pharisees were atheist, which is false.
Steve later said: “The reason that I equate the Pharisees with atheism is A-theism = lacking a belief in/about God. This applies because of Isaiah 29:13 “but their hearts are far from me.” Religion alone(rituals, traditions, etc.) cannot equal worship.”
Actually it doesn’t apply, because theism isn’t about worship, it’s about beliefs, doctrines, etc. A-theism = lack of belief (trust, faith, confidence in, etc.) about God. Worship is a different thing entirely; it is a response to belief, not belief itself, as in: “Because one believes, one is moved to worship.” But not all believers actively worship in a ceremonial sense. Some people believe that street witness is an act of worship, for example. The Pharisees had their beliefs about God, and they attended temple regularly (religiously!), and did all the ‘right’ things their beliefs told them they should do. Doesn’t matter (for this discussion) that their heart wasn’t in it.
December 1st, 2008 at 8:35 pmdammit… trying to figure out how to open bolding/italics for posting directly into comments… grrrr
December 1st, 2008 at 8:39 pm